Our Weekly Mad Men Column: Liz & LJ on "Lost Horizon"

(Yesterday we watched the latest Mad Men episode together over the phone. Here is a transcript of our LostHorizoncon.)

LIZ: I'm happy for Meredith that she's got her shit together now.

LJ: Oh my god, she's killing it. She's such a boss. Is it realistic that a person's hair would've looked like that?

LIZ: Yeah, the bouffant kind of thing?

LJ: It's just really extreme.

LIZ: She does look like a little poodle.

LJ: I wish my hair looked like that. I wish I could execute that daily. My hair's so messy compared to Meredith's.

LJ: What is he doing here? Why is he so enthralled by the window?

LIZ: I think it's that it can't open. Also, the whole idea that Don is going to actually jump out a window at the end of Mad Men - I feel like that's the same as thinking that John Lennon would actually write the lyric "Everybody smoke pot." It's like the same level of...

LJ: ...insight into art.

LIZ: Yeah, exactly.

LJ: If that's how Mad Men ended, I would be so sad.

LIZ: When people ask me do you think he's gonna jump out the window, I wanna start yelling, "What is wrong with you? How could you ever think that?"

LJ: "Yeah. That's my opinion. I think Don Draper's going to jump out a window."

LJ: I like how they're gracefully transitioning us out of knowing certain characters. Like, "This is your moment to say goodbye to Shirley. She's not on the show anymore. Reflect on all the times we've spent with her."

LIZ: I hope that was the goodbye for Harry but it probably wasn't.

LJ: I hope it's the goodbye for this lady on the right here.

LIZ: She thinks she's such the sharp wit.

LJ: She's the worst new character since Pima. She's the Pima of "Lost Horizon."

LIZ: She dresses like Pima kind of.

LJ: She wishes. She wishes she was Pima: that's how bad she is.

LJ: Joan looks really good. I wish I had that dress. Also, later in the episode, Peggy's wearing a similar look to Joan's. I feel like that's a conscious choice to link them together.

LIZ: I was so excited 'cause I thought Joan was finally going to have friends. But she's not. Joan isn't ever allowed to have friends.

LJ: I love Ed. I was really hoping this would lead things in a romantic direction for Peggy and Ed.

LIZ: But he said "Call me."

LJ: But I thought it was like, "Call me about a job at McCann."

LIZ: I thought it was like, "Call me, let's go out."

LJ: Maybe he was like, "Whatever, I'll take what I can get. I'm Ed."

LIZ: I feel like he's from right now. But it doesn't bother me like it usually bothers me when people seem like they're from right now.

LJ: He would kill it right now. He would clean up.

LJ: Who do you hate more? Ferg or Jim Hobart?

LIZ: I hate them both so much. I'm really grossed out by the way Jim Hobart moves around.

LJ: Ferg's shoulders are just a bit much for me.

LIZ: They're both completely disgusting. I guess Jim Hobart is more evil.

LJ: Ferg is more aggressively disgusting. But he's also more handsome. I'd rather make out with Ferg than Jim Hobart.

LIZ: I don't ever want to make out with Ferg!

LJ: But you have to!

LIZ: No!

LIZ: This guy too. Dennis. Of the three, I'd make out with him first.

LJ: I feel like I would make out with Ferg over Dennis. I'm obsessed with making out with Ferg. Like, I'd make out with Ferg over Don.


LJ: No, I'm kidding! I wouldn't!

LIZ: Would you make out with Ferg over Harry?

LJ: Whoa, that's like the hardest question in the world. Yeah, I feel like I'd make out with Jim Hobart over Harry. I'd make out with Ferg first, then Jim Hobart, then Harry.

LIZ: I would make out with season 1 Harry, then Ferg, then Jim Hobart.

LJ: That's fair. I watched the Inside Mad Men for this episode and Matthew Weiner makes a really good point that as much as you should be on Joan's side in this situation, she's being really inappropriate, waltzing into a new job making so many demands and being so hostile. Which I thought was interesting. I mean, I'm automatically on Joan's side, but it's true that she's being insane.

LJ: Oh, Peggy's the coolest right now.

LIZ: Yeah, those fries, and zipping her skirt up.

LJ: And, like, wiping her fry grease off onto her body. I like how in this episode we learn that her job title at McCann is "supervisor." I related to that, since I'm also a "supervisor." "Supervisor" is a made-up job title that means nothing. If anyone ever offers you a position as "supervisor," you should run in the opposite direction.

LIZ: So I guess she didn't go to Paris.

LJ: She didn't go to Paris. They would've followed up on it. Or maybe she did go to Paris.

LIZ: Yeah it might be like, "Surprise, she really did go. She's with Stevie now."

LJ: But Peggy can't end up with that guy. They can't do that to us. That's the least satisfying thing that could happen to anyone ever. Are they gonna make something happen with Peggy and Stan?

LIZ: I would love that. But Mad Men doesn't really ever give us what we want.

LJ: It's a fan favorite but they're too cool for it.

LIZ: Peggy and Stan are too cool?

LJ: No, the Mad Men team. They're just too cool. Mad Men needs to be a little less cool. They should just make all the main characters end up with all the other main characters.

LJ: Oh, here's Pete, popping in to remind us that he's doing really great at McCann-Erickson.

LIZ: It's all lining up for Pete! He's getting Trudy back, he's at McCann.

LJ: But then last week he said, "Of course you'll like McCann, you're a sheep" to Ted. But he's also a sheep.

LIZ: Is Pete a sheep? I guess he's a weird, bitchy sheep.

LJ: He's a shark. He does what he can. He's a hustla'. That's what's up.

LJ: What language is Ed speaking?

LIZ: Something Eastern European?

LJ: Maybe Romanian. This hot new element of Ed: his Romanian background. Oh, then he has a cute little hat.

LIZ: And a cute bag. Ed is cute.

LJ: That would work so hard on me. I'd be like, "Screw everything else I've got going. I've got Ed."

LJ: I wish we could know more about the boxed lunch.

LIZ: I really wanted Ted to open up his lunch and start eating it.

LJ: Ripping off little pieces, with one hand.

LJ: What do you think is going on in the world of Ted right now?

LIZ: He's got his new girlfriend, he's got his new job. He's doing all right.

LJ: I don't want him to like McCann though.

LIZ: But he does.

LJ: Why, though? He's creative.

LIZ: That's true. But he wants to take a break. He wants to not drive for a while, as he said.

LJ: He knows he can just go home and hang with his cool girlfriend. This is just his job. He's like, "Whatever, I'm at work. It's not perfect but it's my job."

LIZ: He's not a Don or a Peggy.

LJ: Yeah, they don't have that separation. Work is all they have. Joan and Roger are like that too.

LJ: I like that little look on Ted's face. He's like, "That ol' rascal." Matt King made the incredibly good point that, when he left, Don brought his boxed lunch with him.

LIZ: Great move, Don.

LJ: If I were Joan I'd go for Ferg over my disgusting developer boyfriend. I'd be like, "Sweet, I'm out."

LIZ: She really likes him, though.

LJ: But why?

LIZ: I mean, she has pretty bad taste. There's no one she's ever been into that I'm like, "Yes, great choice, do that." Besides Roger.

LJ: But even Roger is her married boss.

LIZ: Yeah, not ideal. Oh, and she went out with Paul Kinsey, so that was bad too.

LJ: What the hell, this guy is insane. Like, the mafia? Seriously? Joan just really has disgusting taste in men. If she didn't, she'd just go for Don. Not that Don is like the catch of the century, but on some level he is.

LIZ: My friend asked if I thought Joan would move to California and be with that guy, which is interesting.

LJ: I'd like that for Joan. At the end of the day I wouldn't feel that bad about Joan giving up on her career. I don't feel too invested in Joan's excellence as an account woman.

LIZ: But when she was like, "I got the job I always wanted," I was like, "Yeah, Joan!" I was so happy for her.

LJ: You like Joan more than I do. You shout out Joan a lot more than I do. Who's your favorite? Oh, it's Pete, never mind.

LIZ: Really Don is my favorite. It's so hard to rank them. Don and Peggy are pretty tied, then Joan and Pete.

LJ: I feel like Peggy then Don then Roger. And sometimes Roger edges out Don.

LIZ: At this part I was like "Oh yay, maybe Don will go to California." But Megan's in California. Is he gonna go hang out with Megan? Or even just risk running into her?

LJ: He could hang out with Stephanie. She's cool.

LIZ: She's fine. I want more for Don than for him to go hang out with Stephanie, though.

LJ: What would I want Don Draper to do in a perfect world? I guess I'd want him to go to Europe. Like maybe Paris. I feel like English people wouldn't like Don. He wouldn't make that big a splash. They'd think he was a flashy American.

LIZ: Oh really?

LJ: English people are weird. They think everything North Americans do is extravagant and we're just loud and crass. Even Don Draper they'd be like, "Too much flair!"

LJ: Betty's killing it this season.

LIZ: I was gonna say I wish Betty had her own spinoff, but I wish everybody had their own spinoff.

LJ: That's true, but Betty would be the most organic spinoff. I just wish there was Mad Men forever. Do you think in the final episode they're going to tell us what happens to every character in the future? I don't but I hope they do.

LIZ: Like Six Feet Under? Like we see them all die?

LJ: Yeah, I hope it's the exact same finale as Six Feet Under. Only with a Beatles song. Or maybe "All Things Must Pass."

LIZ: Oh my god. I was going to say "In My Life," which would be so terrible, and so great.

LJ: Is Don trying to hit on her? Or is he just bored and lonely?

LIZ: He doesn't know what to do with himself, so he's just like "Might as well give ol' Birdie a neck rub!"

LJ: This is the outfit of Peggy's that echoes Joan's outfit. It's the coolest Peggy's ever looked - unfortunately, because she doesn't even look that cool. Even in the scene where she's so cool with her cigarette, she doesn't look that cool. She looks kind of weird and she's not smoking a cigarette correctly.

LIZ: If we were going to actually write this post instead of do a telecon, I don't even know what I'd write about this, other than that it's just so perfect and amazing and wonderful.

LJ: It's like a story we would write. It's like the midpoint between a story that I would write and a story that you would write. It's like the exact balance.

LIZ: Good job, Matt Weiner.

LJ: You really killed it. Also it's obviously an unusual character pairing, like a nerdy "I'm in love with my own characters" kind of move, like "Let's give Peggy and Roger a scene, let's see what they would do."

LIZ: Yeah, I wasn't like, "God, I really hope we get to see Peggy and Roger hang out one last time," but then it's so great.

LIZ: I love how Roger says this one thing [about not having to make men feel at ease] and Peggy runs with it so hard. And Roger's not really even thinking about it.

LJ: "I'll never make men feel at ease again!"

LIZ: "That's it, I'm done!"

LJ: I feel like Roger and Peggy are similar in a weird way that I never noticed. They're both sort of selfish and rude, but in a more approachable way than Don Draper is. I can see Peggy ending up more like Roger. Roger has his LSD side, and I feel like Peggy has a similar introspective streak.

LIZ: Yeah, and they're more in it all for actual enjoyment. What Don looks for is so dark and fucked-up, and Peggy and Roger just kind of want to have an okay time.

LJ: Yeah. It's like: you're an advertising creative director, man. It's really not that sad.

LJ: It's weird that Don has this whole actor bent to him. Like, "I'm going to act as Bill Phillips now."

LIZ: I didn't get at first that he didn't just make up a fake person; he actually took a real person's identity. I guess that's Don's general move though.

LIZ: Apparently there's a theory that by the end of the show, he'll not be Don Draper anymore. He'll be like -

LJ: Bill Phillips? That's not a very cool transition.

LIZ: No, that he'll go back to being Dick Whitman.

LJ: Oh, okay. Not like be a whole new third person.

LIZ: Yeah, "I'll just pretend to be a researcher for Miller beer. I'll just do this now."

LJ: And they're like, "Don, we all know you. It was a week ago."

LIZ: "You took that roast beef sandwich, we all saw you."

LJ: What a loser. This is insane behavior.

LIZ: I don't believe that he's really that taken with Diana either.

LJ: But maybe that's sort of the thing. Diana's just mean and dull. How many guys have really come looking for her? Like, maybe he's the second.

LIZ: Droves of men have gotten into their cars and driven all across the country, to try and find Diana again.

LJ: I hope she files a complaint. She still could. Or maybe we'll just never see Joan again.

LIZ: No! We have to.

LJ: No, we will. They wouldn't do that to us. They'll show her in the Six Feet Under montage. We'll know everything.

LIZ: I think the worst characters on the show are Joan's mother, Joan's husband, Joan's boyfriend...

LJ: Whenever Joan has a friend.

LIZ: That old roommate of Joan's.

LJ: That one friend she had that time, the Avon friend.

LIZ: It just occurred to me this week that Matthew Weiner will make other things. I know that Mad Men is a lot more than just him, but he'll do other things and they'll probably be good.

LJ: Good point. He's not just giving up.

LIZ: Did you tell me that the last episode would be Don as an old man looking back on his life?

LJ: Someone told me that but I don't believe them.

LIZ: I don't want that to be true. I don't want it to be a given that Don's not going to die before he's an old man.

LJ: That's true. It's just unrealistic that Don would live.

LIZ: That guy that walks by Peggy is really hot.

LJ: He's the new Kenny Cosgrove.

LIZ: He's like Weird Arty Ken Cosgrove.

LJ: Who needs Ed?

LIZ: Ed, you've been replaced.

LJ: In my head after the first time watching this I made up that she walked in and they played some really cool rock & roll song. I was sort of remembering it as the song when Don gets to the airport and Megan picks him up. What's that song?

LIZ: Spencer Davis Group. That would be good because it's called "I'm a Man," and Peggy's not a man.

LJ: Yeah, that would've been really effectively utilized.

LIZ: I didn't get the first time I watched that he's actually listening to "Space Oddity." That's weird. I feel like Don wouldn't listen to "Space Oddity."

LJ: Yeah, he would think David Bowie is such a freak.

LIZ: He couldn't even handle the Beatles.

LJ: He turned them off! But he's changed since 1966.

LJ: Why don't we end with predictions for next week's episode? And then we'll see if we get it right.

LIZ: I feel like there's gonna be some Glen. In the scenes from next week's episode there's a lot of Sally and there's a shot of her being like "What are you doing here?", so I'm assuming it's Glen. Although maybe it's Don.

LJ: Yeah, but Don might just be on his wild adventure. Or maybe it'll be some completely surprise character. Maybe it'll be Ed.

LIZ: It's probably Ed.

LJ: The rest of the series is going to be more random character pairings. Like, "Here's Betty and Stan."

LIZ: "Here's Betty and Ed." Just Ed with everyone.

LJ: Henry Francis and Ed. Ed holding Gene.

LIZ: Mona and Ed.

LIZ: It seems like next week there's a lot of Sally and Pete and Betty. It's not really who I'm dying to hang out with in these last two episodes.

LJ: I'm into Sally, but I'd sacrifice her for more of the Sterling Cooper fam. I think that Pete's going to have a dilemma.

LIZ: About Trudy?

LJ: No, about work. About accounts.

LIZ: Right. A dilemma about accounts.

LJ: And I think Ed's going to visit Sally. What if there's not any Don? I hope something crazy happens with Don.

LIZ: He needs to get himself into some weird sketchy situation that transcends all past weird sketchy situations.

LJ: Yeah, like next-level sketchiness.

LIZ: But if he goes away forever then he's not going to get to say goodbye to Peggy.

LJ: And that's going to hold Peggy back, which is not fair to Peggy. I want Don and Peggy to run away with each other and open up a new advertising agency in Paris. That's what I want to happen next week. And for Pete to have an advertising dilemma.

LIZ: I want Joan to go with them, she'd do well in Paris.

LJ: And there can be a montage of Joan shopping in Paris.

LIZ: And eating beautiful Parisian desserts.

LJ: Yeah, like petit fours.

LIZ: If we don't hear that much more from Roger, I'm fine. We know what's up with Roger.

LJ: I feel confident that he's okay. I want Ted Chaough's girlfriend to make a surprise appearance. I want something Beatles-related to happen. I want Peggy to be listening to All Things Must Pass. Or I want Stan to be listening to Plastic Ono Band. Stan would love Plastic Ono Band.

[some discussion about the release dates of All Things Must Pass, Plastic Ono Band, and Ram by Paul and Linda McCartney, which came out in May of 1971]

LIZ: Maybe Mad Men will end in May of 1971.

LJ: With Don going out to buy Ram and finally chilling out.

LIZ: I feel like Don wouldn't like Ram very much.

LJ: Who would be the Mad Men character most likely to be into Ram?

LIZ: I feel like Ram has some Ted Chaough energy, but I don't really know what Ted Chaough is into, musically.

LJ: I can see him getting into Steely Dan, as the '70s wear on.

LIZ: Yeah, that's so true.

LJ: And I can see Pete getting into 1977 Electric Light Orchestra.

LIZ: Aww, that would be so cute!

LJ: And I feel like Don just hates all music. He might be into Berlin-era David Bowie, now that I know he's a semi-David Bowie fan. Berlin-era David Bowie is dark. And Peggy would be really into All Things Must Pass.

LIZ: I feel like Peggy never listens to music.

LJ: I can't accept that. But yeah, it's obviously not a huge thing for her. She just likes advertising too much. She ain't got time for that.


  1. BREAKING NEWS: Ed is speaking Japanese!!

  2. sorry if this is weird but I need to share: I hate Ed because of a scenario I made up in which Charlie and the guy who plays Ed were both up for the part of Ed and the guy who plays Ed got it so I hate him for that

    1. don't ever be sorry for sharing things like this!

  3. I have been WAITING with baited breath (ew) to read these posts when I got caught up with Mad Men. Love you two. Did not disappoint. Spot. On. Thank you for your good good brains!

  4. I still haven't seen to the end yet! Waiting on Netflix... so just skimmed this. I kind of know what happens though but love that you're keeping Mad Men alive! Long live MM!